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Rank: Guest
Groups: Joined: 5/29/2009 Posts: 358
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I'm not writing under my real name here because I would prefer for my university not to know about my participation in this thread. Some background: I'm a tenure-track assistant professor with about 6 papers in the Business School (Finance). One (1) is in an A journal; two (2) are in B journals and the others are B- journals. My dept. chair and Dean tell me that I am unlikely to make tenure when I apply in the Fall, so I should just resign, i.e., teach through the 2009/2010 year and then leave.
I know I was not able to hit with a few of my publications, but what gets me is that I looked at the record of some professors who went up for tenure before me and their records were not that different or better than mine. However, they are more politically connected than me. I should add that I hope to get one more B journal before I submit my package in September. By the way, my school is a mid-level school, but with aspirations to higher recognition.
My question is: if I get the B journal hit, should I go up for tenure or leave? I'm told that it is better not to be denied tenure officially and not have it on your record. Even though people may suspect it, you can always say you left for other reasons. I'm reluctant to just leave because I have a few colleagues who support me and have encouraged me to apply. I will appreciate your advice.
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Rank: Guest
Groups: Joined: 5/29/2009 Posts: 358
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Girish.P,
You are facing quite a common issue. I am assuming you are employed in a US university. Is it a teaching or research university? Some of these factors can help me focus my answer to your problem.
I have served on tenure and promotion committees at the department, college and university levels at a couple of universities. So I have quite a bit of experience on these issues.
Lets break down your case. Tenure is typically made up of 4 components. Research, teaching, service and factor X. (Factor x= is the unknown, which nobody talks about, could be political, they dont have the line, etc).
You dont talk about your teaching or service. I am assuming its well over the average compared to the rest of the university.
That leaves the research and the factor X, which in your case is the political factors you mentioned.
Lets begin with factor X. This is something that is tough to deal with since nobody wants to talk about it in public. My recommendation is forget about political factors. Simply because its so intangible and can consume so much of your time, and thus is not worth it.
That leaves Research. You seem to have a good research record for an up and coming researcher at a mid level school. As you are at a university with aspirations, looking at past records of tenured faculty is not a good measure. Standards change all the time. Its not political or anything personal but just reality.
Given that both your dept head and dean have recommended you dont go up for tenure is something to consider carefully. Let me explain why. 1. There is no political motivation and they are just advising you of the reality. 2. There is political motivation, and they just dont want you at the university.
I suspect its point #1. However in either case, its tough hurdle to overcome. Sure you can apply and fight the process. The problem with that is you are going to lose a lot of time, money, energy and general health, as well as the opportunity cost of future publications. I have seen far too many of my friends suffer because of this.
How about applying for tenure and hoping for the best. Nothing wrong with that. Is being turned down for tenure better than resigning? Frankly, it does not matter at all. There is no stigma either way. Many of the most productive have been turned down for tenure. The only issue with applying is the time it takes to prepare the package. Since you need to prepare these documents one day anyway why not apply?
And also remember things change so fast. You may have a new dean next month, who may feel that you are a good fit. One just never knows.
So my advice to you is as follows.
1. Forget all the political factors. Dont waste time discussing it. 2. Apply for tenure (put up a great packet). Noone can stop you from doing that 3. Continue working hard on your research and teaching. 4. Keep looking for other jobs.
These 4 factors will keep you productive, healthy, happy and very successful.
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Rank: Guest
Groups: Joined: 5/29/2009 Posts: 358
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Hello Tenured Professor,
I really appreciate your helping me to analyze my situation. I'm sorry I forgot to talk about my teaching and service. I have good teaching overall, although there is one semester in my first year where a mass lecture did not go so well. My service is excellent as I made sure to volunteer for as much as I could - committees, open houses to recruit new students, and visits to local community colleges.
As to whether the motivation of my Dean and Dept Head is political or truth-based, I know my Dept Head is a straight shooter, but my Dean is very political. So it is hard to know whether this is being driven by the Dean's office. I like your thought that says just forget about the political aspect, and thanks for explaining that there is no great stigma to being denied tenure. They would know anyway. We had a guy come in after 6 years at another university and even though he had resigned to join us, everyone knew his situation anyway, but he got tenure with no problem a couple years after he arrived.
You have helped me to make up my mind. I will go up and put my best foot forward. If I succeed, I succeed. If I fail, then at least I won't live my life wondering what might have happened. Thank you again.
Girish
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Rank: Guest
Groups: Joined: 5/29/2009 Posts: 358
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Very sound advice. I would just emphasize the continuing to look for another job. Even if you are awarded tenure, do you really want to work in that environment long term? Getting tenure will allow you more freedom to look. Also, be ready for denial, although this will give you a much shorter window (although generally there is a terminal year contract). One other suggestion, consider having a meeting with both your chair and the dean (probably difficult to get them together) to let them know that you appreciate their counsels, but that you would like to go through with the process and that you value their input in putting together the best portfolio you can.
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Rank: Advanced Member
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, Registered Joined: 5/30/2009 Posts: 32
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This is very interesting for a potential doctoral student. Are there points in the tenure process which indicate to faculty that there could be problems. It seems so unfair to think that after 5-6 years of hard work you are told that you wont be granted tenure. Are there signs that should forewarn us of such issues?
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Rank: Advanced Member
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, Registered Joined: 5/29/2009 Posts: 118
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kreminmp wrote:This is very interesting for a potential doctoral student. Are there points in the tenure process which indicate to faculty that there could be problems. It seems so unfair to think that after 5-6 years of hard work you are told that you wont be granted tenure. Are there signs that should forewarn us of such issues? Many forward-looking schools have a midstream review 3 years into the tenure track. The purpose of this midstream review is to see how the candidate's progress on the tenure track is going. Their research is reviewed, including how many papers have been published, are in review, are being worked on, and being planned. The problem usually arises when Colleges are reluctant to act even after a midstream review is disappointing. Very few schools will fire the professor under review; instead they will give them very dire warnings in an effort to "shake them up" and have them speed up their work to make it at tenure time. Thus in all my years, I am yet to see a midstream review result in a dismissal. Since papers take a couple years from inception to publication, most committees know the most likely outcome of tenure appraisal during such midstream reviews. However, hope always seems to triumph over rational straight line projections of the candidates current record into the future.
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